Topics 5 and 6 both involve proposals regarding non-playoff teams.
TOPIC 5
Penalty payments for 10th, 11th, and 12th place finishers
PROPOSAL: 10th, 11th, and 12th place finishers all pay an equal penalty fee. We currently only have the last-place team paying that $25 fee.
REASON: The giving up at the end of the season hurts competition and makes it the luck of the draw as to schedule and getting a dead man’s team late in the season. A match at the end of the season is as important as a match at the start of the season.
Change needed: 75% of votes
TOPIC 6
Inverse ping pong ball percentages for the draft lottery (beginning 2015 draft)
PROPOSAL: 7th gets highest percentage, 8th gets second-highest, and so on; 12th gets worst percentage
REASON: It truly keeps everyone involved until the final week, whereas in the past, anyone in like 8th or especially 9th or 10th place had nothing to play for with 2 or 3 weeks left to go, because they couldn't make playoffs and couldn't get last place. This would make a final-week match between the 3rd place team fighting for a division title vs. the 9th place team equally as important as a matchup between the 6th and 7th place teams. Like noted above, a match at the end of the season is as important as a match at the start of the season, and this really makes things interesting and fun.
Potential added wrinkle: Last place fee gets eliminated in part to cancel out with increased buy in and also because you're already getting punished if you finish in 12th place.
Change needed: 66% of votes
Please feel free to discuss below if you'd like.
Thursday, January 23, 2014
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I'm all for topic 6, I like the idea. Not much to add, it keeps things competitive for everyone til the final week of the season, which I know we've had a problem with some years.
ReplyDeleteAnd it will probably get voted down, but hell, keep the 12th place fee. Would just be funnier to kick that person while they're down...Yes, yes, I know it can be me, I am no juggernaut in this league. Just think it would be a nice "fuck you" to whoever falls into that spot.
If topic 6 gets voted down, I am on board for topic 5. Anything that puts more money into the pot I am in favor of.
OK. This one is mine. A few supplemental thoughts. Please give this serious consideration. It's a real problem and in my view we need to deal with this to keep the competition up all year by all.
ReplyDelete1. I'm not suggesting the same fee for 10th, 11th, and 12 th. It should ladder down. Maybe $25 for 12 th, $ 15 for 11th, and $ 10 for 10th.
2. I missed the playoffs last year in a very close race for 6th. I dealt all season with major injuries, poor spotty performance, and some heartbreaking losses (yes some blowouts as well). After all of that I didn't give up, and fought back. All I needed was a team that gave up and stopped setting their lineup to start Rick Porcello on a Saturday night in the next to last week, He was a heavy favorite at home against a poor team. If the give up team was paying attention instead of giving up I would have been in the playoffs. The luck of the draw hurt me in that the team that gave up played dead in a key matchup at the end of the season against the 6th place team that I needed to lose to catch.
I think the inverse draft lottery system is great and really like the idea. On top of everything already stated, it spices things up a bit. Truly eliminates tanking, too.
ReplyDeleteSo potentially the 6th place team could get in the playoffs and win the league and get the last pick yet the 7th place team who misses the playoffs by 1/2 a game could get the 1st pick? Seems that the point of the lottery is to try and better the worst team, this would eliminate that and potentially lead to a team not being able to get out of the cellar. I know it is extreme and not likely, but just something to consider. It's an interesting twist no doubt, not sure if I am on board with it yet or not.
ReplyDeleteWith that being said, if 6 passes then I do not think 5 should. Would seem to be unfair to promote competition in 6 then also punish people who still try to compete but fall into the 10-12 spots.
I hear you Chris, but I think we are to small of a league to worry about a team staying in the basement cause of that. In a pro league, yes those teams need those high end picks to help them improve. But here, there are only 12 of us and we are basically drafting all new teams each year. So the people who finish at the bottom had a shitty draft, injuries or just lack of attention through the season. And not so much cause they were drafting 5 or 6 instead of 1 or 2.
ReplyDeleteLooks like a jumbled mess, sounded better in my head.
A 5th or 6th place team has never won a title in 7 years of the league.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I believe the team with the best draft odds has only won the lottery 3 of the 7 years.
Like Mike said, it's rare for a team to be so, so bad that the difference between having the, say, 5th pick instead of the 1st pick would be crippling for years to come. I think only one person has gotten last place in the league more than once.
We should promote competition and discourage ranking equally. Teams should not be rewarded for hiving up and not trying to win. All wins and losses count equally whether in week 1 or in the last week. Playoff spots should not be lost due to the luck of playing a dead team that quit late in the season and the quitter who gave up should not be encouraged to give up without penalty.
ReplyDeleteTypos sorry. Tanking not ranking. Giving up not hiving up.
ReplyDeleteAndy - please see my comment where I noted that I realized my scenario was "extreme and not likely." Jack - I agree, competition all year long should be promoted. Like I said, I am not necessarily opposed to it and definitely see the benefits. I guess that if this system were in place there would be less commotion/vetoing come trade deadline when teams attempt to gain a keeper for next year. At least, that is what SHOULD occur.
ReplyDeleteI'm leaning towards voting for the inverse ping pong ball system. I still don't like punishing managers with ascending penalties who finish at the bottom. It seems punitive at that point if the inverse ping pong ball system were in place. Also, I like Andy's idea of eliminating the last place fee for the reasons he stated.
I like the idea of the inverse ping pong ball system. Chris's point is well taken, but I think the reward of installing a system that forces teams to stay competitive to the end outweighs the risk of having a team accidentally beat the system. Especially since it hasn't happened in the 7 year history of the league like Andy said.
ReplyDelete5 and 6 seem to contradict. We'll do penalties for 10,11,12 but then maybe not for 12?
ReplyDeleteI like the tiered penalty - $25, $20, $15
Don't really care about the inverse since it is just bettering your odds and not necessarily a result of what you'll get.
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ReplyDeleteI don't like the consolation bracket being the decider of it. It never has been in the past, and that kind of takes away from the whole premise of it, IMO. Someone can give up or not pay attention for the final few weeks and still be rewarded by winning the consolation bracket.
ReplyDeleteShould be regular season finish in my mind.
Agree with Andy, the consolation bracket wouldn't solve late regular season game tankings.
ReplyDeleteSorry, it's Friday and been a very long week so my brain is fried and I deleted my comment because I realized it made no sense. I agree with using reverse order standings for the last 6 teams to decide the draft lottery. It promoted competition and prevents tanking. Because of this, having fees for the 10th - 12th place teams wouldn't be very fair because all teams will be vying for a better draft pick IMO.
ReplyDeleteI do think that minimally we should keep the last place fee even with inverse order. The 10 th and 11 th place laddered down fees become less relevant (although I still would like it) since the inverse addresses the competitive nature all year by all or better said doesn't reward hiving up.
ReplyDeleteThat said I think cash even small amounts definitely keeps people focused and the laddered for 10th, 11th, and 12th should be in play also. Even nominal amounts will cause people to try to avoid those spots.
I agree with Jack, I like the idea of implementing both.
ReplyDeleteIf you do have the inverse draft order though, what motive would a team have in giving or tanking? They would only be hurting themselves in the future. Also, with weekly skins in there, bad teams have even more of an incentive not to give up. So then the last place fee becomes who's team was truly the worst so they would end up getting punished monetarily and punished with the worst lottery odds. I kind of think that is excessive punishment
ReplyDeleteBob. Everyone pays attention to cash. It's the ultimate attention getter. The funds from 12th place (and 11th and 10th) could enhance the skins payout. It's not so much a penalty but rather a fee for not performing well, etc. I'm not sure just a 12 th place fee or just inverse order of ping pong balls is enough to keep everyone from trying to compete all season. Let's face it just the 12 th place didn't. I think we need both inverse order and expanded fees.
ReplyDeleteSorry I've been on vacation and didn't have internet access. I actually like both ideas. What would the increased funds be used for? As previously stated, it effectively keeps the bottom of the league in their own contest, that for a better draft odds.
ReplyDeleteI think we run a good serious league and it is competitive enough that you can try every week and still end up in 10th place or worse. I think fees for other than last place is a bit too much. Instead, I like the second proposal of inverse lottery odds. In fact, I would go so far as to say that we should consider eliminating the lottery for the first however many picks and make it directly tied to the finishing order, e.g. 7th place finisher gets 1st pick, etc. That system might sound like a stretch but it gives very real rewards and consequences for finishers 7-12 instead of just better or worse odds. Also, even if #6 or similar passes, I would keep the last place fee. It's a bit of a tradition now and, as a former last place regular season finisher (not due to lack of trying), I think all future last placers should have to pay as well.
ReplyDeleteMissing the deadline to put a player in one day does not equal giving up. And if I had given up and stopped setting my line-up you couldn't boil it down to one player missing his start, that makes no sense. Obviously was not my intention but if that's your style then I'm glad it went down that way.
ReplyDeleteI most certainly can boil it down to that one player on that one night. Here is how. You didn't set your lineup all week. Had injured and job playing people in. Even with that you were tied in wins and down 3 or so in strikeouts. Of course Porcello wins the game and has something like 7 K's. I email you that day all day to set your damn lineup. No reply
ReplyDeleteNo reply because you gave up played for next year and ping pong balls without any penalty. If you had to pay a fee for diminished placement and lose ping pong balls you would have paid attention late in the year.
ReplyDeleteLet's not let the facts get in the way.
Fact - there's no crying in baseball. . I did not tank...that is all.. Obama rules..focker out
ReplyDeleteLol alright, alright. Both parties have had their say. Let's focus on 2014 and baseball. Besides if we start talking politics too soon, there will be nothing for Jack, Bob, and Joe to bond over on draft night.
ReplyDelete